in the 60s there were signs in boarding houses

I have rented most of my life except for a short period of around five years in the early 90s when I started buying a property with my second wife. That was the most stressful five years of my life with regard to accomodation and even if I were in my 40s now and know what I know about the buy/rental question, I would not buy again. Home Insurance and mortgages are astronomical and, as Tigerlily says, if you lose your job you lose your home and then you are worse off because you are at the sticky end of the rental market where your choices are limited if you are still out of work when you have to move because your house has been re-possessed. I honestly don't understand and never have what is so attractive about owning a house. You struggle all your working life to pay for the thing, it costs an absolute fortune when you need to do any repairs and if you have the rather dubious luck to live to a ripe old age it is a pound to a pinch of manure that you are going to need looking after in your dotage and, if that is in a care home, you have to flog the damned thing to pay for someone to look after you. Rental is the norm in most continental countires and certainly in USA and I reckon that is certanly the best way to go.

Each to their own, I guess. I would not like to be perpetually paying out money for something that will never belong to me.

I took out an Endowment Mortgage back in 1985 and the monthly payments were comfortable and a lot less than if I had been paying normal rent on the property. The trouble with this type of mortgage is that your only paying off the bank interest and it is only when the Endowment policy matures that the house is finally yours.It was finally paid off about 5 yrs ago,but it became a worry when some of the Insurance Companies started going bust and many endowments were not paid out.Luckily,my company survived but it became a worry and made me sweat to say the least. I'm now sitting comfortably in a fully paid up house with only maintenance to cover.That's great until I finally go into a care home and have to sell my house to pay for my keep. In return they will give me £18 a week pocket money,a packet of Polos and allowed a day out to Brid-as long as I wear my incontinence pads!

Joking apart.you wouldn't have this monstrous rip off if you had rented a house,instead they just help themselves to your old age pension and stick you in a less desirable home next to a noisy pub!You then reflect on the past and think was it all worth it-I'm now left with nothing and the Governments got it all back again. Maybe I should have just bought a tired looking dapple-grey horse a Gypsy Caravan and camped out on Orchard Park Road.

I loved the input from Harry, but although it was a lovely ironic view of things the horrifying thing is that it is so bloody true. Perhaps we should have all moved to Bonnie Scotland where the cost of the care home is met by the Government and you can leave the house you scrimped and saved for to the ungrateful little sods who have been watching the house prices in your particular area and planning what to do with the money when the old bugger finally falls off the perch. Personally, I would rather stay in my own home until the grim reaper comes knocking on my door to tell me it is about time I packed it all in. Mind you, I am getting a little deaf as the years go on and maybe I won't hear him knocking. I wonder if I can pretend that the bloke with the thin face, dressed in black who is tapping on my living room window with the pointy end of a scythe is only here to cut the grass. Yes, I know it is unusual these days to see a bloke using a scythe to cut grass but I shall tell myself that it is only part of an economy drive on the part of the council's parks and gardens dpartment. If I ignore him and turn up the telly will he get fed up and bugger off and leave me alone?

I cannot believe you say YourMail whose descent into obscurity you had a strong hand in

Why not, Steve? If you cast your mind back you will recall that you and the agitator and others were very often grossly insulting to members who dared to disagree with you and that was part of the descent into obscurity that Yourmail suffered. You may care to remember it differently in which case you are fully entitled to see things in hindsight through rose tinted glasses, but I reserve the right to tell it as it was. However, I have had my say and you have had yours and I would suggest that we now draw a heavy line under the subject. I shall not discuss anything to do with Yourmail from here on in for my part.

medsec wrote:

If you don't see the virtues and attraction of owning your own home and putting down roots in the area you choose to live in, then there's little point trying to explain it really.

It's quite clear that you don't understand the point I was trying to make regarding the link between home ownership and labour mobility. However, as you seem to be far more interested in the virtues of home ownership rather than the drawbacks, I really would be grateful if you could take the time to explain it to me.

alanmackinnon - Alan the free care in Scotland in most cases is 'means tested' and most of the local councils cannot afford to fund it. Also the latest goverment proposals will kill it off altogether. Many of the people up here who bought their own council houses are now selling them back to the councils because they can no longer afford them mainly because of unemployment. There is a lot of unhappy desperate families going about Alan and who is going to help them?-certainly not the Politicians or Bankers. They are the 'grim reapers' you mentioned in another form.

Harry, that sounds like a desperately sad situation and even worse than England, where we know we are going to be robbed of any property we have been prudent enough to amass over the years. It seems that the true story of Scotland's care system is not known to us here in the rest of the UK. I honestly did believe that everybody in Scotland who needed elder care got it free of charge even if they were property owners. Are you now telling me that if I lived in Scotland and owned a house I would have to sell the house to fund my residential care, because that is not the story we have been told by the press and politicos. Obviously, if I have cash in the bank and needed care I would expect to pay for that care, because that is only fair. If that is what you mean by means testing then I am fully in agreement with it but not in being forced to sell my property to provide funding.

Alan -
Most people in the UK, including the majority of people in Scotland, believe that Scotland offers FREE CARE to its pensioners. They believe that people who go into residential homes do not lose their house!
Wrong- this is pure spin doctoring
The true situation, at present, in Scotland is:
Elderly people in residential homes qualify for support of £145 per week for personal care and £65 per week for nursing care. But further support for living and housing costs is means-tested.
Pensioners with assets of £19,500 or more - including the value of their home - do not receive any assistance and those with capital between £11,500 and £19,000 are expected to make a partial contribution. That can mean people have to sell their house to find the money required.
There is now the option of a Deferred Payment Agreement, which means the property is signed over to the council but not sold until after the owner has died. Then the council will take what is owing to them! The family of the older person still lose their inheritance!

So,If you rent a house and have less than £11.5K-you will get free care.

Alan- You spoke about the Grim Reaper.Nobody can avoid him,but you could get your own back by sending him a letter similar to this:-

Dear Grim Reaper, so far you have taken away my favourite celebrity Les Dawson, my favourite dancer Gene Kelly,my favourite actor Steve McQueen and now my favourite singer David Whitfield. Just to let you know you know my favourite Politicians are Tony Blair and John Prescott.

Hiya, Harry, thanks for clearing up that popular misconception for me. I shall now return my bagpipes to the attic and put the kilt and sporran back in mothballs and when the grim reaper does finally get round to me I may well thwart the old bastard with a picture in the attic (I wish). By the way, Harry, love the idea of putting Bliar and Lard Prescott in the frame. The letter will be going as soon as I can find out this grim reaper's postal address. Meanwhile, I shall remain in Hull and be thankful that the NHS Long-term conditions team are brilliant and make my life a lot easier than it would be had I not had their help.

Trev I have no intention of explaining anything. You seem to think having to follow jobs around the country is a good idea. It may suit some but it's certainly not for me. Of course there are drawbacks to being a homeowner and it is up to everyone to decide whether it's for them. If you don't like something then there's little anyone else can say that will make you feel differently..

Nothing wrong with owning your home. Anyone wanting to better themselves and their situation has my respect. Nothing wrong with having a council house. But councils only build houses where they want them; I want to live where my heart takes me.

As I said in my previous post, there are pro`s and cons to both owning and renting homes. I can see Trevs point though. Some people have no option than to chase jobs or look elsewhere, especially in the current economic climate. Unless you have an extremely well paid job it`s difficult if not impossible to be able to rent in one town while paying a mortgage in another. As for selling up in order to move...forget it!!!

"As for selling up in order to move...forget it!!!"

Sorry but thats clearly wrong.

Some folks seem to manage to sell up and move quite quickly and easily. Others don't. We've moved once, from the Dukeries to the Avenues and it was a very, very stressful experience. As for re-locating elsewhere, I did that when I married and moved here from Bradford. That was also quite difficult for me, as I had no family here and only a small number of friends in Hull. By the way, my family lived in a council house.

Did you mean mr. mackinnons use of the "B word" when you say "Sorry but thats clearly wrong"? "tut tut",could this be the start of our "descent into obscurity" shame shame.

Steve, since there is no indication that The Grim Reaper was born of a married set of parents my use of "the B word" as you so coyly put it was perfectly legitimate. I don't think the odd case of risque language however would have the effect of bringing down this forum. Childish points scoring and nit picking may, of course, have that effect, as it did with Yourmail, but I think not. So long as we continue to call a spade a spade and not a bloody shovel, then I feel we are onto a winner.

To the left. grim reapers happily married mother. unless you know something i dont know

No, Steve, that is either the Grim Reaper for porno addicts or a picture put out by undertakers in an effort to make dirty old men look forward to dying.

we got something to look forward to then,see you there,first come first served

That's fine, Steve, but don't forget the raincoat and remember that once you get hold of the melons on the lady's collar bones she reverts to being a twenty thousand year old crone.

We dont call them raaincoats at our club,just macs so yours must be posherer.